Comparing Gloomhaven and Frosthaven

 We were looking forward to Frosthaven. Since the box arrived, we've been going through scenario by scenario almost every day and have already gone through 8 scenarios. In order to avoid spoilers, I will limit myself to the information that you will learn after opening the box and going through the introductory scenario.

 I played Dark Harbor, Jaws of the Lion, Forgotten Circles, and digital Gloom with a friend. Each controlled two characters. We play on a normal difficulty level and rarely lose scenarios. In my opinion, we are average players.

STARTING CLASSES

 I started playing Boneshaper and Deathwalker.

 Boneshaper is tied to summoning skeletons, and in large quantities. Summoned creatures were difficult to play in Gloomy Harbor because their cards were removed from the game after use, they were uncontrollable, and they had very low HP/damage and didn't scale as they leveled up. Frosthaven fixed things up a bit: Summoned creatures now follow the host with no other purpose, and skeleton prize cards are not removed from play, so they can be used multiple times. As before, they do not increase when gaining new levels, so they are most effective at the early stage of the campaign.

 Boneshaper goes well with the Bannerspear character; lining up allies in a formation so that her attacks are stronger is not difficult at all. Also, she is perfectly combined with the character Deathwalker - both are able to generate darkness.

 Deathwalker is tied to the use of shadows. The problem is that placing shadows on the field is not easy. But once they're placed, it's much easier, as you can generate new shadows when the enemy you're attacking dies. However, the first couple of turns of the battle you have little use for, unless you use cards that are removed from the game to get a couple of shadows. You can move shadows around the field, but by spending cards to do so, you don't move yourself. While you can attack from the shadows, it doesn't help in scenarios where you need to run away. Fortunately, I found an item (SPOILER) Magnetic Cape that allows you to teleport to an ally - it was very useful.

 Deathwalker looks great. When someone else plays her, your first thought is, "Wow, what a cool character." But if you try to play it personally, not much happens; you just wander around the field suffering from a lack of shadows. It looks best in scenarios where there are a bunch of low HP enemies - it makes it easy to generate lots of shadows.

 My friend played for Banner Spear and Drifter.

 Banner Spear is a bit of a monster because she has low mobility. She has some cool formation attacks, but getting the characters right doesn't always work out, as sometimes enemies move or die before you can execute that formation.

 Drifter is tied to long-term effects (persistent effects) and moving tokens back and forth. It doesn't sound like much, but in practice it can attack (and counterattack) often and very powerfully. Apparently, he has a lot of cards with long lasting effects; he would really need two or three, but most of the cards in his deck have those effects. This is probably the easiest class, and even very difficult by the standards of most players I know.

 In general, starting decks have few actions like "attack 3" or "move 4". All of their capabilities fit neatly into the style of play that this class is designed for. Yes, the Boneshaper can summon skeletons, move them and attack them, detonate them, heal them, poison enemies with them, and even roam, but on her own she has very little skill compared to the Dark Harbor characters.

CHANGES IN THE RULES

 There are many small innovations in Frosthaven. In general, the gameplay remains the same, but some shortcomings have been fixed. In particular, I noticed the following:

• Enemies that have spawned and summoned leave behind loot. It's so much better than the original! More loot = everyone happy. Even now, there is a limit on the maximum amount that can be collected per scenario. A good limit to keep players from going crazy with greed.
• Summoned creatures follow the host in the absence of other targets. A trifle is nice. Personally, I'd like them to move towards the door if there's a door nearby. Usually my conscript sits in the back, so there is little point in moving creatures towards her.
• You can repel/attract enemies at a distance less than the maximum indicated on the map. My characters do not have such abilities, so I did not manage to test the innovation in practice, but it is nice that now you have more control over what is happening.
• Ranged attacks have been moved from the monster card to the monster's ability card. This is great. In Gloomhaven, a lot of monsters could hit every hex in the room with every attack, which is clearly overkill. Now even high level monsters don't always affect everyone.
• There are 3 combat targets to choose from at the start, which greatly reduces the risk of getting stuck with a difficult target.
• Hexes with tokens are considered empty, so enemies can summon creatures there. It looks logical and does not reduce the effectiveness of recruits when there are a lot of corpses around.
• Line of sight can be traced from any point on the hex. She is rarely of MG importance, and will now play an even smaller role; most hexes are visible to all other hexes in the room.
• Monsters will move through invisible characters. While we haven't gotten that ability yet, I'm glad that the tactic of blocking the passage with stealth and firing at melee monsters clustered on the other side no longer works.
• Advantage and difficulty have been fixed, so now drawing a card with an additional modifier when attacking with advantage is not a disadvantage.
• Interactions with other characters/creatures and terrain are more clearly spelled out.
• No more instant kill abilities. They were replaced by the status effect "death" (bane), which deals 10 damage, which will finish off most enemies, but not against high-level monsters.

 It's also worth noting that Disarm, Stun, and Invisibility are now much less common, so you won't be able to disable entire rooms of enemies in a row with characters like Music Note, Mindthief, or Eclipse.

NEW RULES

 Several new status effects have appeared: regeneration (Regenerate), fragility (Brittle), amulet (Ward) and weakening (Impair). Otherwise, there are practically no new mechanics.

 Loot is now more: not only coins, but also whole decks of useful herbs, materials and even random items. This maintains interest, increases variety and makes the option of going after the moon even more attractive. Admittedly, building a loot deck individually for each scenario is a bit tiresome. In addition, each individual resource must first be mixed into the deck, so you will have to do the following:

• Divide all loot cards into categories: coins, wood, metal, leather, herbs, random items.
• Shuffle the deck of coins (as well as metal, hides, and wood if you're playing with two or three).
• Draw as many loot cards as specified in the scenario and set aside unused cards.
• Shuffle all these cards into a loot deck.

 It doesn't sound like a big deal, but apart from that, you still need to do a bunch of other things in the layout process.

COMPLEXITY OF SCENARIOS

 Many have complained that the scenarios in The Forgotten Circles are too difficult (I personally found two to be too difficult, the others seemed normal). And that there are too many "kill them all" scenarios in "Gloomy Harbor" (personally, that's fine with me).

 As far as we can tell so far, most of the scenarios in Frosthaven aren't too difficult and boil down to "kill them all". Some have a slightly different objective, say kill the boss or escape, but generally to kill the boss or escape you have to cut out all the living first. However, after the last played scenario, two more opened to us, which look more puzzling and difficult.

 So, I think, in general, there is a variety. I was surprised that the first few scenarios use mechanics from Forgotten Circles

 In my opinion, if "Forgotten Circles" seemed too much for you, you should not give up on Frosthaven, because it is less difficult. Although sometimes there will be scenarios that can freak you out and make you wonder, "How does this work?"

EVENTS ON THE WAY

 The author promised to improve this mechanic, but the events are still random and unpredictable. I don't understand why the player is offered a choice at all; it would be better to limit yourself to a mini-story and a description of what happened to you. Events most often boil down to the following:

 You found a puppy by the side of the road.

 Option A is to pet him.

 Option B is to kill him.

 If you choose option A, the puppy will be demonic and everyone starts the game wounded.

 If you choose option B, you will get rid of the demon and get 5 experience.

 However, in the next drawn map, you may meet a real puppy, and if you choose option A, the puppy will lead you into the forest and a new scenario will open up for you, and if you choose option B, you will lose 3 morale.

 So it is absolutely useless to think about solutions. True, now the characters have features that affect the outcome of events, but this mechanic is very unintuitive.

PLEDGE PHASE

 Now, after each scenario, you have a pledge phase. Winter has not yet arrived, so everything is quite quiet. It was cool to put stickers on buildings in the city, but in general, construction is still pretty boring. Let's see what happens when the city grows. Now you don't buy everything in the store: you have to craft items and brew potions. Cool mechanics, we like it. So far there has been one early attack on the city, but as a result, we have not only not lost any resources, but also gained a little extra.

MONSTERS

 Most of the monsters from Gloomhaven migrated to Frosthaven, almost unchanged. We met new monsters. For the most part, they are similar to the old ones, no one who is perfect new and unique has come across. Only classic hitoboys, shooters, tanks, unbearable imps, etc.

SCENARIO LAYOUT

 Now you don't see the whole script from the beginning. Each room is dedicated to a separate section, so you never know what awaits you in advance, which is a great innovation. True, you know what tiles and types of monsters are used in the scenario, so you can prepare, but there are still surprises waiting for you when you move between rooms.

 As far as we can tell, the scripts have gotten shorter. Many consist of only 1-2 rooms. Not sure if they will be the same, but our not particularly mobile characters appreciated it. It also seems to me that there are fewer cards with movement 3 or 4 than in MR.

 Many more scenarios have almost no terrain: just a bunch of empty rooms with one obstacle. Cragheart would be upset. I was waiting for the ice floor with such foreboding, but there are none (so far).

PLOT

 There is practically no common plot in Gloomhaven. There are some pretty weird mini-plots about demons and necromancers coming your way, but overall you don't pay attention to the plot, it's unimportant compared to the gameplay. Frosthaven has similar feelings so far. There are several storylines here, but you jump from one to another and it's not too difficult - especially considering the events on the road and at the outpost, which are quite vague in nature, because you can pull them out at any moment. Let's see what happens next.

 Childress has talked a lot about making the game more inclusive, and it shows in the game, but the effect isn't particularly noticeable. For example, shamans became priests. Not sure what makes it better, but if others see it as a sign of respect and inclusiveness, then that's fine.

 As for the connection to Gloomhaven, there hasn't been one yet. Even the city of Gloomy Harbor is practically not mentioned.

COMPLEXITY

 Currently, on normal difficulty, we passed all the scenarios the first time. As a rule, everyone had a few cards left in their hand. We discuss for quite some time what cards we will play someday and how we will attack. It makes the game easier compared to the recommended communication limits, but to be honest, playing Banner Spear and not being told which hexes to ally with is still masochistic.

 I think if you passed Gloomhaven, then Frosthaven should not be afraid. Also, if Frosthaven seems overwhelming, you can always lower the difficulty level. There is nothing shameful about it.

COMPONENTS

 About the same level as Gloomhaven. Summoned creatures now have their own stands, which is great. Keeping the components in the standard box is pretty handy, although I'm not sure how to stuff the removed tiles in there. You will probably have to keep them in a separate box. There are a lot of card decks, and most cards should be divided into active and inactive. There is a lot of silence with components, and there are also a lot of components themselves. Our entire table and several chairs are literally littered with cards, tokens, and more, and we're not going to clean anything up until the end of the campaign. If you don't have an extra table, I sympathize.

 By the way, the HP and experience counters come back too easily. I often accidentally touch them and lose tons of HP and experience.

SCENARIO TABLE

 Frosthaven has a large table to help you keep track of which scenarios are currently available. Cool feature. Although the table is simply gigantic, it becomes much easier to understand what you can do next. It's just a shame that Frosthaven has a lot of mutually exclusive options, so you won't get through a lot of scenarios in one campaign. Moreover, even playing them in casual mode, having gained experience, resources, perks and treasures, is now impossible. After completing only 8 scenarios, we have already lost access to 15 scenarios.

CONCLUSIONS

 If you liked Gloomhaven, you'll like Frosthaven. Here, everything is about the same, but somewhat twisted. If you have not played Gloomhaven, then it is better to start with it: it is now cheaper and more accessible. And if you haven't played Lion's Jaws either, I highly recommend trying them first before thinking about Frosthaven.